I am a Christian.
I grew up in Sunday School memorizing Bible stories as the teacher illustrated and taught each one on an old green felt board.
I grew up going to Church not just on Sunday mornings, but Sunday evenings, too. And of course, there was the Wednesday night prayer meeting as well.
When I grew more and became a teenager, I did what good Christian kids do- I spent my summers on international mission trips overseas.
As an adult? Well, as an adult I became a pastor, went to seminary, and spent eight years of my life studying theology, the Bible, and all the things that good Christians do.
I am a Christian- as committed a Christian as I can imagine one being. I believe in the inspiration of Scripture, sin, the incarnation of Christ, the death and resurrection of Christ, the second coming, and the final judgement.
I am a committed Christian. I love Jesus.
But let me be honest about something else: I’m deeply concerned about the American Christian Taliban.
You see, while I am committed Christian, I am also well aware that there is a very, very dangerous movement happening in our religion right now. It is a movement that embodies everything they claim to hate– but does so cunningly, with an aura of righteousness and superiority– so much so that Christians across the nation are blindly participating.
While this movement is busy warning us on the dangers of radical Islam, they’re doing the very things they are denouncing– right under our noses.
What are they warning us of?
They’re warning us of radical religious extremists who want to take political power, turning democracies into functional theocracies. They’re warning us of people who look at the culture around them, and are concerned that the laws of the land are not the same as the way they interpret the laws in their holy book. They’re warning us of people who think “God’s ways” ought to be reflected in laws which nonbelievers or other religions are forced to live by. They’re warning us of people who seem to care little for religious freedom, other than freedom for themselves. They’re warning us of people who discriminate and treat others as second class citizens, simply for not sharing their own religious views.
They’re warning us of the one who knocks, not even realizing they are the one who knocks.
They warn us of groups like ISIS and the Taliban, not even realizing they are a group like the Taliban.
Case in point is cultural movements being led by people such as fundamentalist leader, Franklin Graham. Folks like Graham are issuing the rally cry of the Taliban– warning that culture is getting “too progressive”, warning folks that morality is under attack, and encouraging Christians of a very specific flavor to take control of the government at local, state, and national levels. There are frequent calls to “vote the Bible” or to return America to “biblical values.” (Except feeding the poor and welcoming immigrants- somehow that doesn’t count.) There’s a need to send the LGBTQ community back into the shadows of society, a need to enshrine in law the right to discriminate against others, the never-ending thirst for power, and the desire to shut down or punish those who have morals different from their own.
It’s not enough for them to live in a country where they are completely free to practice their own religious beliefs– they need power, and they need others to live under their religious code, too.
It’s not enough for them to say, “I don’t believe in X, and therefore I will not engage in X.” The Christian Taliban are the ones who say, “I don’t believe in X, and therefore I’m going to fight to make sure no one has it.”
Yes, there’s an American Christian Taliban, and we ought be concerned.
While they are busy working to achieve their vision through democratic means, the net-goal is not all that different than other religious extremist groups: taking control of culture and government to transform a nation into one where their rules are law.
Not via influence and by wining in the arena of ideas, but through power, control, and dominance.
Yes, there is a Christian Taliban in America, and they are actively working to take over the government at local, state, and national levels, and aim to force on the rest of us a weird, twisted version of Christianity that isn’t really Christianity at all– it’s the strange and wicked religion of TRUMPianity.
As freedom loving American Christians, we must stand against this movement.
We must stand for religious freedom instead of religious compulsion.
We must stand for equal rights that place liberals and conservatives, religious and non-religious, all on equal ground before the law.
We must ensure all Americans, no matter what stipe, have equal access to the whole of society, and that their dignity is maintained in the process.
We must stand for religious freedom, but must stand against religious rule.
We must stand against the American Christian Taliban.
135 Responses
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Interesting! (Mark 12:28-34)
Anyone else find the “floating” sidebars of the new Patheos look incredibly distracting? On my iPad the keep blinking off and on when I scroll. Not good.
I like old way better
Am I the only one who’s beginning to wonder if D.M.S., Sandi, Bob, and S. Phillips are all the same person with multiple different accounts? I know Bob definitely has at least one other Disqus account, so it’s entirely possible that the same phony who uses those accounts may also be pulling the strings for the other 3 trolls who have been here.
I’ve honestly wondered the same thing
You are not known for your honesty.
Fortunately, our interaction can be seen by all on this forum where we are both on the record such that folks can make their own determination.
Actually, he is, and you full well know that, troll.
There used to be another named ‘John’ who said the exact same crap. I had to block all of them, lol. I couldn’t stand seeing any more of their tripe than I have to. If there is no reasonable debate, then what is the point?
Do atheists and anti-Christians come to Christians sites to debate or to argue. I have found the latter to be true.
Well Bob, of all people you should know. Other than to argue, I have no idea why you came onto this site. It definitely wasn’t to debate, unless your idea of debate is to condemn others and call them fools.
Your comment is baseless and you liberals that troll this site don’t like it when you confronted on a supposedly Christian site by biblical statutes and precepts. I have already admitted I have two identity’s I use Bob Shoemaker and Bill Mackenzie which are both my names one my adopted name and the other what I was supposed to be named after my adoption. I wish those like you could be this honest. It’s funny how you think we’re all the same person when the fact is we’re all biblical Christians that believe in the same faith, God and bible. Now you know how Christians think. Just to embarrass you farther I only use Bob Shoemaker on this site.
Bob, it is you who chooses to come into this site to sow discord. You are the troll. It is you who starts quarrels or upsets people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community.
Amen
Dude, he didn’t accuse. He said he was ‘beginning to wonder.’ The key word there is ‘wonder’
Why don’t you mind your own business? He did make a false accusation and it was made once before so please take your childish arguments elsewhere.
I promise I’ll mind my own business if you promise to remove that gigantic chip off your shoulder
BTW knock off the valley girl childish “dude” talk.
Haha. So ‘dude’ is offensive to you, one who routinely calls others ‘fools.’ You have the some of the most screwed up double standards
????”valley girl“????
I see the comments section is full of the very kinds of people Ben was talking about in this article. Gotta love how easily they get triggered whenever someone dares to point out the truth about them.
It’s easy to point out the truth about me….that’s not even worth a point.
It is worse for them when they lie about Christ and what He taught. He taught that homosexuality is a sin.
I’m going to say the same thing to you that I said to D.M.S. the other day. I’ve seen your various comments here. Your holier-than-thou attitude and mannerisms are exactly the kinds of things Jesus admonished the Pharisees for during His lifetime. Remember when He said to “first take the beam out of your own eye” (Matthew 7:5), “let him without sin cast the first stone” (John 8:7), “even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity” (Matthew 23:28), or to “beware of practicing your righteousness” (Matthew 6:1)? I suggest you look in the mirror and say those verses to yourself, because you are the very same kind of person He was talking to when he said those things.
And for the record, I hate to burst your bubble here (no I don’t), but you are not spreading God’s message or doing God’s work by posting a shitstorm of lies and hatred online. And even if – by a million-to-one chance, that is – what you’re saying actually is God’s word, you do not have the moral high ground upon which to stand and spread it. That ground is reserved strictly for Jesus Christ, which you are not. And therefore, nobody needs you to accost them with any of the manure that you claim has something to do with God that you’ve been smearing all over this blog for the past week.
2 Timothy 3:16-17English Standard Version (ESV)
16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God[a] may be complete, equipped for every good work
Your fight is with Christ, not me.
No, you are the one who is deliberately spreading lies and paranoia (i.e. bearing false witness) about an entire demographic and trying to mask it with your “Christianity”. Jesus Christ never did that, would never do that, and would never approve of you doing that.
How have I lied?
You lie when you say Jesus is opposed to homosexuality. The truth is he never said a word about it. The term did not even exist until the 19th century.
You lie when you claim to “love” the LGBTQ community and then threaten them with Hell in the same breath. The truth is you cannot love anyone whom you would threaten with that.
And above all else, you lie when you try to use Jesus as a scapegoat for your own actions and words. The truth is Jesus Christ is not the one threatening the LGBTQ community (or anyone else) with eternal damnation, screaming about sins, demanding they “repent”, attempting to “convert” them to turn them straight, or denying them access to Heaven, YOU are. You know what else is the truth? Trying to hide behind Him to avoid having to admit your own personal prejudices is taking His name in vain (ergo, violating Commandment III).
I could give you plenty of other examples of the lies you and other similar-minded people propagate on a consistent basis, but I do not have time or patience to go through all of them. And yes, every one of those things is something you have said on this site before. Now, go ahead and reply with more bullshit if you so choose.
ok….I’ll try to help you. Check the following verses:
Jesus is God (John 1:1-5) Jesus is the Word of God (John 1:1-5)
He is the Messiah, or the Christ (Isaiah 9:6)
2 Timothy 3:16-17 – 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.…
Christ spoke to Moses what He wanted Him to say (Leviticus 18:2) Moses wrote down what the Lord said:
Leviticus 18:22 – 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 – If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.
Homosexuality is a sin.
Oh yes, to let someone know they are on the road to death is the only manner in which some finally hear the truth.
Romans 6:23New King James Version (NKJV)
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
All sin leads to death, and homosexuals need to know they are playing with their life.
Paul was taught by Christ for three years through revelation (Galatians 1:11-18)
He spoke for Christ who wanted him to set up the church among the Gentiles.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11English Standard Version (ESV)
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
That says that a homosexual will not see the Kingdom of Heaven – they will go to Hell.
So, check out what I have just shown you and tell me where I lied, hon.
If you knew someone was inside a house that was burning out of control, would you just knock softly on the door and let them die? Of course not. Neither will a Christian allow a homosexual to die, and we never know when the Lord will take us from this earth. Life is not guaranteed.
So, anyone telling homosexuals Christ (Jesus) said nothing about homosexuality has lied to you. I have more scripture if you wish to see them. Homosexuality is a sin and it kills people.
No BS hon. Check everything I said. If you need more, I’ll look online in the am.
God bless you.
“here’s a need to send the LGBTQ community back into the shadows of society, a need to enshrine in law the right to discriminate against others, the never-ending thirst for power, and the desire to shut down or punish those who have morals that different from their own.” Baloney. No one wants to hurt them. We are trying to have them saved so they can go to Heaven. The author seems to forget his purpose as a Christian.
So you view them merely as objects of conversion? I know folks in the LGBTQ community who are Christian already. And even if you do view them as ‘living in sin,’ why would you not lump all others in that category (i.e. divorced and remarried couples, gluttons, prideful, gossips, etc). Besides, Jesus’ kingdom message was not about going to heaven when we die. We Christians certainly believe his assurance of eternal life, but the commission he left us with was to go make disciples (followers). When we reduce Christianity down to just getting a ticket to heaven, then we’ve pretty much missed Jesus’ message.
Sorry, homosexuals are not Christian. They will not see the Kingdom of Heaven.
Where have I ever not “lumped them into the same category”?
We make disciples so they will go to Heaven with Him.
I suggest perhaps you may be interested in Galatians 1:8-11
The kingdom of God is already here and you aren’t a part of it.
In fact you are actively working against it.
A tree is known by it’s fruit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchineel
And your fruit is rotten to the core.
No one will ever see the ‘kingdom of heaven’ since no such ‘place’ really exists outside of the minds of deluded, and superstitious, christers. However, if anyone can prove ‘heaven’ does exist, I would love to see the evidence, before I go along with the idea.
If I’m wrong, you have nothing to lose. If you’re wrong….you’re in hot water.
What if you’re wrong and the Buddhists are right instead?
FEAR, FEAR, FEAR …
INTIMIDATION, INTIMIDATION, INTIMIDATION …
MANIPULATION, MANIPULATION, MANIPULATION …
Where’s the love?
I truly do hate your god that drives your hardened heart and mind that is so counter to the Messiah’s who frees me to love even you. I carry a cross for you and yours.
Kinda ironic you reference that particular Galatians passage there since Paul was addressing the fact that his readers got duped into believing a gospel that rested on their religious performance rather than on faith in Christ alone.
It was what I wanted you to read to learn the penalty for teaching a different gospel. Teaching homosexuality is “normal” is a different gospel, my friend. You want to believe it your way, it’s called abandoning Christ and embracing rebellion.
We’ve already established that you aren’t interested in anything that’s been learned about human sexuality in the last 2000 years. And we’ve also recently learned that you aren’t interested in anything about the Bible except for the narrowest possible construction of a few words in a translation made into Early Modern English some 1700 years or more after its original composition. Are you one of those folks who are under the illusion that God actually wrote in 17th century English, and that all the words in the 17th century meant exactly the same things that they mean today? That would, of course, be in keeping with your total rejection of most of human knowledge and experience, so that you can keep your little flame of hate burning brightly, hoping to kindle a few stake-burnings when you can.
And, homosexuality is still a sin that keeps people out of the Kingdom of Heaven. God bless you JD
Homosexuality is not a component of the gospel lol
Gospel means good news. Christ willingness to forgive and heal people of homosexuality is good news.
I think I have asked this before Ron, of both you and Phil, so forgive me for the possible repeat, but if the Gospel is not about going to heaven upon death and avoiding hell, what is it in your view?
So what happens when a 10 year old kid hears the gospel and genuinely receives Christ, born again and filled with the Holy Spirit of God inheriting eternal life. He grows and matures in the faith, loves God and neighbor, faithfully worship and prays, and closely walks with Christ. At 16 years of age he comes to grips with the fact that’s he is gay. He never chose to be, no different than heterosexuals who never chose to be straight. So are you saying God changes his mind? That he unbirths him from the kingdom? That the kid had everlasting life for 6 years but now lost it (which would mean it really was never everlasting to begin with)? That now the kid gets kicked into hell for eternity for something he never chose to begin with. And why would you allow a few select verses in scripture to pretty much destroy everything Jesus himself said about inheriting eternal life? There’s just so much wrong with your myopic view of scripture.
No. I would say either the child was never truly born again, because Christ would have known where he was going, or, the child, Lord permit, had backslid into sin. Like the rich man’s son, he wandered and when nothing else was left, returned home to his father. This young man, God willing will do the same.
One way or the other, my heart goes out to his parents who are probably deeply hurt by this and not knowing what to do.
One does not “come to grips” with homosexuality. It is a choice.
My prayer is that the young man, if he belonged to Christ, renounces satan and returns, or finds Christ for the first time.
Homosexuals will not see the Kingdom of Heaven. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11; Ephesians 5:5
Translation: the kid has it coming and deserves to die and go to hell.
not a very good translation
“No. I would say either the child was never truly born again, because Christ would have known where he was going, or, the child, Lord permit, had backslid into sin.”
…so now you’re questioning the depths of their faith but you hate it when other people do this to you?
You read minds? lol I’ve never discussed that with you.
Clearly, you know nothing about human sexuality beyond a few slogans. You do not “choose” whom to be attracted to, or whom to be sexually responsive to. Of course, you do choose your response to yourself. You can “choose” to ignore all your sexual feelings as a human being and try to be attracted to people you aren’t attracted to. If you think that’s a viable choice, I suggest that you try it yourself for a few months.
At the time the bible was composed, the idea of “homosexuality” as an an identity and the concept of a loving, committed gay couple simply did not exist. It was basically identified as a possibility in the later part of the 19th century.
As I’ve commented earlier, I know this first-hand. I spent over 20 years in a state of deep psychological denial, trying to be attracted to women. I was married; I am even a father (and a loving and loved one,) What I am not is sexually responsive to women. As a result of hanging onto this false heterosexual identity for over 20 years, I suffered serious psychological damage, which 35 years later I’m still dealing with. My only “choice” was the decision to live instead of to die. I understand that you and yours would much rather that I had died than that I live. Perhaps you might be able to understand why I would prefer to live.
I pray solemnly to any and all the forces that might operate in the universe that you and you horrible death-worshiping ideology never come anywhere close to anyone I love, or to any vulnerable young people. It’s you who are responsible for the ghastly epidemic of teen suicides induced by families brought to hate their own children – what a horrible thought – by you and your fellow ideologues.
It’s unspeakably heartbreaking. People come on here and parrot the same condemnatory stuff with reckless biblical prooftexting as if they’re giving new information to us poor blind reprobates, as if everyone on here hasn’t heard all of it already a thousand times before. I just got scolded for preaching a false gospel, now get this, for not preaching that the gospel is about homosexuality. I remain incredulous over the irony.
We choose who we have sex with.
Tell your loving theory to the people of Sodom and Gomorrah – whom Christ rained burning sulphur on because they were unrighteous.
I will pray for you that you repent of your sin, but, my friend, you are a sinner in need of a saviour.
So you chose to be straight?
No. “Straight” is how everyone is. Christ called homosexuality “unnatural”.
first of all, no one “comes to grips” with being a homosexual. It is a choice.
I would say if your child was never truly born again, or has backslidden and Christ will rescue the child from that sin. Homosexuals are not Christian.
You’re really obsessed about this gay thing aren’t you? Wish you were as obsessed about the things Jesus actually taught on
If you hadn’t rejected Christ, you would know that I am.
So did you choose to be straight? Are you attracted to both sexes but choose to be straight instead of gay? If not, then why would you believe people choose to be gay if straight people don’t choose to be straight? And if you didn’t make such a choice yourself, why would you feel qualified to speak into something of which you know nothing about? Like why on earth would people willingly choose to subject themselves to what they have to go thru in many segments of society? I’m sorry if these real issues don’t fit within your theological box, but refusing to see other’s very real life experiences does not help the credibility of our faith.
Christ called homosexuality “unnatural”, “dishonouring their bodies”, “dishonourable passions”, “Shameless acts”. He made very clear in Romans 1 that it is an exchange from what is natural. Homosexuality is a choice.
Christ also taught that He will forgive and cleanse us of our sin.
And I remember all the tea party types (not called tea party then, just segregationists) and all their fights against the SC over civil rights and the billboards saying “Impeach Earl Warren”. Your knowledge of American history is like Trump’s. Popular mythology. And I don’t have time to deal with the narrow minded who don’t see the wider implications. So Scalia called for a wider definition of the militia? Which never had existed before? Tell that to the school children at Sandy Point. What a bunch of bastards you are.
A truly wise man is he who believes the Bible against the opinions of any man. If the Bible says one thing and any body of men says another, the man will decide, “This book of the word of Him who cannot lie.” R.A. Torry
Bullshit Sandi! The Bible, the Qur’an, equally as well as every other word penned by Man regarding the spirit being God is not the word of God. Yet, there are fundamentalist from every study of God/Allah/Jehovah (the three from Abraham) who give their lives to please their god. What gift could you ever offer an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient eternal (no beginning and no end) being that They do not already have? The God of the New Testament is One who gives that we might live. My God gives of Their life that we might live in everything doing to all others as we would have all others do to us. This, Sandi, you are not doing!
Only fools write down the propaganda you just posted. Let me educate yo on some actual facts here. 1.) God/Allah/Jehovah are not the same as the god Jews ans Muslims worship. 2.) God/Allah/Jehovah the Jews and muslim god have no Son. 3.) God/Allah/Jehovah none of these gods died and rose from the dead to pay for mens sins. And I really don’t care if you believe any of this because all it’s meant to do is show you that you don’t know anything about the bible or Christianity.
Bob,
You wrote: “God’s word warns you of the dire consequences of your choices..”
To which you later said
“Only fools write down the propaganda you just posted.”
So would now be a bad time to reference Matthew 5:22 which says,
“…and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.”
See how that works? Anybody can use the Bible to condemn others. Just sayin
You teach a God who will allow you to do whatever pleases you and He will support you with that – a false Christ – an idol
If you are still following a course of self pleasing, you are only fooling yourself if you think you have come to Christ. AW Pink
God wants us to be obedient/submissive to Him, so that He can work in us. Perhaps you should try.
John 14:15 ESV
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
Acts 5:29 ESV
But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.
1 Peter 1:14 ESV
As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance,
1 John 5:3 ESV
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
Exodus 23:22 ESV
“But if you carefully obey his voice and do all that I say, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries.
If you are teaching against what He wrote, then you are not working for Him.
Galatians 5:13-18 (NIV2011)
You, Sandi, are not walking by the Spirit. You do not have the freedom to indulge the flesh serving one another humbly in love, for you are not a sister, or brother, of the Son of Man/Son of God.
You picked out John 14:15 (Jesus speaking) and ignored the entire context.
John 14:15-21 (NIV2011)
You, by all your condemnation of your neighbor who does nothing to you, obviously cannot see to accept, and then certainly know, the Spirit of truth with and in you forever, beginning now.
You are actually obeying men and not God.
Now, show me some scripture endorsing homosexuality. What, you cannot? Christ taught that homosexuals will not see the Kingdom of Heaven. Why do you lie to them?
Bullshit!!! Christ taught no such thing up to and including 1,984 years ago when He ascended. Christ did not endorse propagation of the species in any way but did command spiritual in attitude toward one another that would work constructively throughout eternity. Your mind is in the gutter and your heart is so hardened that you can’t lead others to their own relationship in God that they may begin to learn as children of God today, gay or not. You are a blind guide. Children are not expected to be perfect. Children who love their Father and the Lord their God with all they are as spirit heart, soul, strength, mind have fulfilled all they must to live eternally as long as they love their neighbor as themselves, gay or not.
You are truly an evil person possessed by some mighty obstinate demons. I hurt for you in your ignorance.
Christ taught everything Herm – give up the lies. I even helped you with the scripture to understand that….
Leviticus 18:22 – 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 – If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.
The obstinate attitude is to protect homosexuals from people like you, my friend.
John 14:15 ESV
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
John 13:34-35
34 I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
1 John 5:3 ESV
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
Matthew 5:17-20
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 22:35-40
35 and one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. 36 “Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?” 37 He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”
Matthew 11:28-30
28 “Come to me, all you that are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
Matthew 11:19
19 the Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds.”
Matthew 5:3-9
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 4 “Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted. 5 “Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. 6 “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. 7 “Blessed are the merciful, for they will receive mercy. 8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. 9 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.
Again, still no scripture supporting homosexuality. Christ was quite clear with Leviticus:
Leviticus 18:22 – 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 – If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon themselves.
You have nothing where He contradicts Himself?
Jesus didn’t write the torah.
He was specifically against it.
lol…..cite your scripture please.
….
You are so missing what people are trying to tell you because you won’t slow down long enough to listen.
“If you love me, keep my commandments”
He said that homosexuality is a sin
John 13:34 – love one another. It is love to tell someone they are sinning so they can be saved. You send them to Hell.
John 13:34 – James 5:20
New International Version (NIV)
20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
1 John 5:3 ESV – absolutely – You shall not sleep with a man as with a woman, it is an abomination. Leviticus 18
Ezekiel 3:18-19English Standard Version (ESV)
18 If I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, in order to save his life, that wicked person shall die for[a] his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand. 19 But if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, or from his wicked way, he shall die for his iniquity, but you will have delivered your soul.” You have been warned, my friend.
Warned about what, Sandi? About a homophobic deity and its halfbreed offspring which threatens you with death if you don’t even your knee just the right way?
Why would anyone in their right mind want to spend eternity with such a petty homophobic megalomaniac much less wish to worship it?
No thanks, I’ll stay firmly in reason, logic and science much more better for your health.
Not in the long run.
Your obsession with homosexuals and hell seems to be blinding you to reading Jesus’ words to comprehend. And it’s profoundly frustrating. Why can you not let Jesus’ words stand alone? Why do you feel the need to insert additional layers of meaning to the Savior’s words when he himself felt no need to do that? Why do you quote Scripture while reading everything thru a lens of ‘homosexual sin’? Why must you filter Jesus’ words through everything else in the bible, rather than filtering all of the bible instead thru Jesus’ words? Why can you not see that you’re getting this backwards? Why can you not simply let Jesus’ words speak for itself? When Jesus’ original audience heard his words, a willing heart would have just received them. That simple. Why do you invoke Scripture in an attempt to caveat the plain meaning of Jesus? Why do you assume that an appeal to love everyone in word and deed equates to a callous disregard for sin? The Spirit of God will convict people of sin, not you. And the reason God sets it up that way is because your version of sin does not always equate to God’s. The Spirit of God can do his own work, thank you very much. Anybody can take a bible and preach any thing they want. Reckless usage of it can be toxic.
My obsession is to see homosexuals saved from people like you, and on their way to being blessed and toward Heaven. Why don’t you want that for them?
Please, show us some scripture where Christ endorsed homosexuality.
https://insiderlouisville.com/metro/bevins-prayer-patrol-plan-to-end-violence-faces-harsh-criticism-from-west-end-pastors-legislators/
“Gov. Matt Bevin’s plan to combat Louisville’s record homicide rate via groups of people regularly praying on street corners in high-crime neighborhoods has elicited mixed reactions. While Bevin received applause from some of the hundreds in attendance during his Thursday announcement at Western Middle School, others heckled the governor, and a group of pastors walked out in protest, arguing his prayer patrol plan was an insult that ignored many of the root causes of violence that require government resources and policy changes.
Bevin signaled last week that he would release a simple plan to reduce violence that would not require any money — as this was a “spiritual” and “cultural” problem — following the tragic death of 7-year-old Dequante Hobbs Jr., who was killed by a stray bullet fired through the window while sitting at his kitchen table. During Thursday’s event, Bevin urged groups of three or more people to pick a block in one of five different ZIP codes with a high crime rate, walk around it for 30 minutes several times a week starting at 7 p.m., and stop to use “the power of prayer” at each corner. The governor urged those prayer patrols to “take ownership of that block” so that “a piece of your heart and soul is left around the edges of that block every time you walk it.”
The problem here is the “pastor” in the article fits his own profile of a propagandist brown shirt.
No, the problem is that you do and you either don’t realize it or are so used to getting away with it that you just don’t _care_. He wasn’t the person who said: “BTW Romans 1:32 state those that support it deserve death.” You did.
What exactly do you think I got away with beside exposing your propaganda? BTW if Beny thinks he’s a Christian he is bound to God’s word unless like you he’s a hypocrite?
Food for thought about our trolls: “they are the kind that prefers diatribe over dialogue, the kind that is more occupied with accusing others and justifying themselves than they are with asking questions and learning something new.”
From http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unfundamentalistchristians/2017/07/4-reasons-gave-bible-debates/
Sometimes it is healthier for all involved to step away. 🙂
I think you’re right. What they don’t get is that they haven’t won the right to condemn others through their use of scripture, because they’re not interested about hearing the stories of others, the life experiences that have brought people to where they are today. Just shouting into the ears of people you don’t know that they’re gonna go to hell unless they stop being gay does not reflect love in any sense of the word. They’re letting their myopic and terribly subjective view of scripture skew their vision of those made in the image of God. But honestly, I actually think they’re sincere in what they believe, which to me seems far more frightening than if they were just trolls. I’m guessing (but could be wrong) that their type of thinking continuously gets reinforced by the religious circles they run in. They can’t (or won’t) distinguish the difference between biblical Christianity and their own brand of it. The Bible becomes anything we want when it is used so recklessly. Sometime Leviticus is in effect, sometimes it’s not. Paul’s words to them were written to 21st century America instead of 1st century churches existing in the middle of a Greco Roman pagan society. When I was told that Paul’s warning in Galatians 1 was a reference to homosexuality as a component of the gospel, I knew this thread was in trouble.
I may heed your advice. Bob is exhibiting the traits of a tr0ll.
Especially when “they” mock God’s word defending a sin God calls a abomination. You do realize the bible states there’s nothing new under the sun? So the fact is “the kind that is more occupied with accusing others and justifying
themselves than they are with asking questions and learning something
new.” is a poor defense when what is being “argued” over is in fact condemned in the bible. So you false premise against those that used scripture as fact vs those that express their opinion really is a bad argument on your part.
This is the sort of child abuse people like Bob/ Bill and his acolytes perpetuate…..
We need to fight against it.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4e57cf913168fd591e5fd619d613295c04dccc249ab4221be7e80949eec53ba6.jpg
After being here for a few days with the mean spirited people and the bully atheists it’d hard to believe it’s related in any way to the bible or Christian beliefs. Let the mean spirited attacks continue……
Are you still trying to bully people on here with your pseudo Christianity bullshit?
This sums up your content on here. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/14d0d930d03412355d8ac9aec19c0ea120cc1403e12a440da10fd3a5fc0980c5.jpg
Let’s just remind people that Bob/Bill has abused every poster on this thread calling them names and has advocated the killing of gay people.
And he’s crying about persecution….
Most of us came to discuss the ARTICLE. You came to bully those who came here in good faith. Talk about mean spirited.
What’s the reasoning behind it being emotionally upsetting to you for the politics of fundamentalist evangelicals to be described as fascistic or Taliban-like?
What’s been “debunked” about the politics of fundamentalist evangelicals being fascistic or Taliban-like in your opinion?
Christianity isn’t politically monolithic.
It’s easy for you to sit off in the corner of your corn field and shoot pot shots at the rest of us. If you’d approach others with a heart and attitude of mutual respect, listen without judging and try to understand vs. condemn those you don’t agree with, maybe you’d have a more positive experience. Your call.
I think your title is a bit over the top. I’m a Conservative Christian. I absolutely do not want anyone forced to obey the scriptures. Geez, that would be a circular firing squad.
To liken Fundamentalist Christians to the Taliban is just deceptive.
I’m not a fundamentalist but I don’t fear them either. I love what F.Graham tries to do around the world. We’d disagree on some issues but I have no reason to fear him and neither does anyone else in the USA.
I liked so much of what you’d written about free will versus Calvinism but this is just disappointing.
I don’t reject LGBTQ community having the same rights as everyone else. I do reject teaching young children about sexuality. Families should not be forced to have their children sexualized before they are ready to deal with their own issues. It’s unproductive.
The idea that doctors can be forced to give abortion information to their patients or bakers forced to participate in gay weddings, whether they are Christian bakers or Muslim. Shouldn’t be a matter for govt.
No Christian Taliban going around beating women for wearing sexy clothes or killing people for converting to Islam…. sorry this is just ridiculous
Andrea, I appreciate your overall tone of semi-moderation; it’s a significant improvement on the invective and shouting that seems to characterize most of the self-appointed christian spokespeople on this post. Nonetheless, I think that you are critically misrepresenting certain important issues.
Personally, I do NOT appreciate F. Graham running around the world spreading his message that because I don’t happen to be sexually interested in or responsive to women, that I am “intrinsically evil” and thus my rights ought to be legally restricted. Have you tried being attracted to someone you aren’t attracted to? How did that work out? Why would Graham (or you) think it would work out any better for me? And if it doesn’t, what is so uniquely pernicious about my attractions that they warrant an entirely different class of relationships with the civic law?
Regarding children, it’s simply a medical fact that like all human beings, children are inherently sexual, although their interests and focus may well develop at different levels and in different ways. It’s part of the responsibility of parenting to understand your children’s development and help them develop self-understanding as well. Parenthood is NOT a license to uniformly impose your own views on your children, still less to “beat the gay out of them” as so many folks feel entitled to do.
I don’t think anyone should have to bake a cake for anyone else, and I don’t want a cake that someone made for me under protest. On the other hand, it is inappropriate medical practice under the rules of the profession for doctors to provide erroneous or incomplete information to their patients because of their own ideological predispositions.
In this country at the moment, at least, personal assaults due to perceived sexual orientation are down somewhat, largely due to evolving public opinion. They are by no means gone; I’ve been assaulted myself on occasion, as have many of my friends. And if you think it’s nothing to hear or read about preachers calling for me to be killed simply for who I am, then perhaps you should try the experience on for size. It’s not fun.
Again, I do appreciate your degree of moderation. But you still seem quite comfortable with signaling to me and my community that we are definitely second-class or less citizens whose civic rights can be unilaterally abridged in the interests of your practicing your version of your religion, and that is simply not a foundation for a just society.
It’s not ridiculous for some.
False love Gospel:
Matt 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the Law?
37 Jesus said to him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Matthew 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things, whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you alway, until the end of the world, Amen.
American Christianity has lost its way. If you think otherwise, it is only because you are carried away with the delusion that pawns itself off as “Christian” here in America. A short reading of Scripture and church history reveal just how severe the wandering has become in our day.
Consider the falselove gospel. Those who embrace it remove half of the gospel message. The falselove gospel only speaks about “believe” and “love.” They want to keep the message positive. No talk about God’s law, sin, guilt before God, or repentance.
One Christian group even spent $150,000.00 to try and come up with a word they could replace “repent” with for their “repent and believe” media campaign. “Repent” carried negative connotations, and they wanted to keep it positive. After six months (and $150,000.00), they came to the conclusion that there was no word you could replace “repent” with that seemed positive, so they just went with the word “believe” for their campaign.
Listen, when you remove half of the gospel message, you have a false gospel. A false gospel results in false converts who then create false churches. When this falselove gospel made its debut in America about 25 years ago, it was condemned by churchmen everywhere, and rightly so. But now, 25 years later, it is American Christianity. It is the prevalent, most popular form of Christianity in America.
The law of God happens to be an essential part of our declaration of God’s good news. A man needs to see that he is a sinner before he will see his need for the Savior. Galatians 3:24 says that “the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ.” Why? Because as Paul says in Roman 7:7, “I would not have known sin except through the law.” The law shows us we are sinners in need of Jesus.
Charles Spurgeon stated, “Lower the law and you dim the light by which man perceives his guilt; this is a very serious loss to the sinner rather than a gain; for it lessens the likelihood of his conviction and conversion. I say you have deprived the gospel of its ablest auxiliary [its most powerful weapon] when you have set aside the Law. You have taken away from it the schoolmaster that is to bring men to Christ.”
Francis Schaeffer stated, “If I had one hour with every man, I would spend the first 45 minutes talking to them about God’s law, and the last 15 minutes talking about His great salvation.”
A man must see he is a sinner before he’ll see his need for the Savior, and the law makes him see. As the Scripture says “so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful” (Rom. 7:13).
But the falselove gospel folk cannot abide the plain teaching of Scripture, they have always been hellbent on creating a more consumerfriendly gospel. They like being liked and they notice people like them more when they remove God’s law, sin, guilt before God, and repentance from their gospel message.
Now the falselove gospel folk feel they have improved their gospel even more. Now – you don’t even have to preach at all! You just do random acts of kindness (and hope people get it). As one falselove gospel proponent recently proclaimed, “We are not truthbearers. Our only job is to love people. It’s the Holy Spirit’s job to bring people truth.”
That’s right, they’ve decided even half the gospel is too much gospel – we just need to do nice things for people. They even use a slogan – “Preach the gospel always, if necessary use words.” If necessary use words? The Scriptures teach that His Gospel is proclaimed through words! I Corinthians 1:21 makes it clear that words are essential to see men saved. “For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.”
The falselove gospel people have actually joined with the world in declaring God’s means of saving man – the gospel preached – to be foolishness. I Corinthians 1:18 says “For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing.” They have decided “since the world doesn’t like it and thinks it’s foolish – we won’t do it!”
Do you know how dire this is? Words – the words of the Gospel – are essential to seeing men saved. Paul says of the Jews in I Thessalonians 2:16, “forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved.” Paul views their being forbidden to speak as a bad thing precisely because words are essential for men to “be saved.” Men are called to God by the preaching of the Gospel (II Thess. 2:14).
The sad reality is the falselove gospel is exactly that – false love. Love to them means doing nice things for people. They gauge how loving they are by how well they are liked. True biblical love however, demonstrates love for God in that we obediently carry out His last command – “Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature.” Biblical love also demonstrates love to our fellow man because we declare to them God’s truth – what they need to hear, rather than what they want to hear. The falselove gospel only makes them into twofold children of hell. Men who have embraced a religion, but know nothing of the risen Christ.
There is no love in any ‘gospel’ that calls for the death of people born different. None.
These are all out of the Gospels and are the words right out of the mouth of Christ. You cut out at least half of each of the commands to love by Christ.
Luke 10:25-28 (NIV2011)
Matthew 22:36-40 (NIV2011)
John 15:12-17 (NIV2011)
You judge to condemn others because they are abominable to you and those behind your sanctuary walls. It will be given to you as you give.
Luke 6:37-42 (NIV2011)
You are a self anointed blind guide who only has the blind to lead. We are not blind.
Plus this is in a letter sent by Paul to the Galatians:
Galatians 5:13-15 (NIV2011)
… in other words from the mouth of Jesus:
Matthew 7:12 (NIV2011)
If you were truly a disciple of Christ you would introduce those who you love, that you think are not going to inherit eternal life, to the Spirit of truth. You would then stand back to allow Him to teach them knowing their hearts and minds much better than you. As it is you don’t see the Spirit of truth teaching you, do you? We don’t!
Yours is the False hate gospel.
Its not good news for anyone.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/73d382fc7558503b2d7376624606503dba10ed0309d7d7d86aa865a2d47df3f7.png
Thank you Ron for archiving Bob Shoemaker’s hate-filled gospel. Bob’s comment history is helpful in that it illustrates what theology looks like when Jesus is removed.
I think it’s a shame that atheists jump in to support you while not one Christian that believes all the bible ever votes up for you?
BTW will you repost the argument you lost on why Jesus wouldn’t stone the adulteress or should I?
Ron McPherson
Flagged!
So I don’t know how anybody can take your response as anything but a
yes (since the specific question to you was whether you advocate the
death of gays). If so, this is you:
“The scribes and the Pharisees
brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of
the court, they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in
adultery, in the very act. Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone
such women; what then do You say?””
John 8:3-52
Bob Shoemaker
But you don’t believe the bible calls for the death penalty and for their supporters you?
As to the adulteress,
John
8:1-11 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. 2And early in the morning
he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he
sat down, and taught them. 3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto
him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the
very act. 5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be
stoned: but what sayest thou? 6This they said, tempting him, that they
might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger
wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7So when they
continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that
is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8And again
he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9And they which heard it,
being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning
at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the
woman standing in the midst. 10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw
none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine
accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11She said, No man, Lord. And
Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Who of the witnesses were left to stone her?
Yes this is the law
Deuteronomy 17:6
At the mouth of two or three witnesses shall he that is worthy of death, die: but at the mouth of one witness, he shall not die.
I played you for a long time on this one eh?
So now why did you kick against the goads for days on end?
Ron McPherson
“Who of the witnesses were left to stone her?
Yes this is the law
Deuteronomy 17:6
At
the mouth of two or three witnesses shall he that is worthy of death,
die: but at the mouth of one witness, he shall not die.”
So you
think if at least one Pharisee had lingered around, then Jesus would
have teamed up with the guy to bash the woman’s head in with rocks cause
Deuteronomy said so, huh? Interesting that even the Pharisees dropped
their stones and moved on. You still haven’t.2
Bob Shoemaker
So now that you proved once again you don’t comprehend the law and just
can’t be honest and admit your question was indeed answered you want to
make up foolish “what if’s” BTW Jesus wasn’t a witness which would leave
only one witness and she still couldn’t be stoned by law. Now why
can’t you just admit you’re attempting to use satan’s devices to save
face?
Now be honest and admit your question is answered and move on.
And the rabbit trail begins….
Ron McPherson
Ok, I’ll try this again. So to you the only reason Jesus didn’t allow her
head to be bashed in is due to the fact that at least two Pharisees
didn’t linger around. By the way, who is “stan” lol?
Thanks. I may actually upvote this lol. Now folks can see the convo without having to scroll down.
Matthew 23:1-3 (KJV)
Matthew 28:16-20 (KJV)
Matthew 7:12-14 (KJV)
There, now that wasn’t so hard to figure out, was it?
The scribes and the Pharisees haven’t sat in the authority vested in Moses’ seat for over 1,984 years now, today. Christ has all authority vested in Him, given by the Father, in heaven and on earth.
Matthew 5:17-20 (KJV)
Matthew 22:36-40 (NIV2011)
All the law of God is not the law of the scribes and Pharisees, nor the Levite priests who sat in Moses’ seat of authority. How much clearer can Christ be? Your righteousness certainly does not exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees.
So DMS is back and trying to get attention like the sad, pathetic troll it is.
Just ignore it and it’ll go away.
For those communicating with cultists, you’re wasting your time…..
“There is no point arguing with a person who has turned off his mind in the interest of personal and institutional glory. In conversation with such a person, one virtually feels that one is dealing not at all with him as a person, but with slogans, catchwords, and the like that have taken possession of him. He is under a spell, blinded, misused, and abused in his very being. Having thus become a mindless tool, the stupid person will also be capable of any evil and at the same time incapable of seeing that it is evil.”
Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Letters and Papers from Prison DBW Vol 8
You are dealing with cultists.
Not rational, sane people.
“Yes, there is a Christian Taliban in America, and they are actively
working to take over the government at local, state, and national
levels.” I applaud you for calling out the hypocrisy within “your” group – I love this about honest Christianity, it is self-policing….would to god that ALL groups do this….some groups are better than others…..of all my criticisms of Christianity, on the whole, I think they do a damn good job at this and I commend them for it.
Great article! and as for, .” There’s a need to send the LGBTQ community back into the shadows of society,–as a Gay person I can promise all of you and the FAKE Christian taliban that that will NEVER happen again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow, your moral high ground is so elevated, I am surprised you can even breathe.
Lol…how f###ING ironic.
A conservative nut job crusader calling someone out over having the ‘moral high ground’.
You must have missed your mated calling for the deaths of gay people.
Remarkable article.
Not in a good way.
Thank you for such a timely article. This is a serious problem in this country.
The below comments have no bearing on this article. Why not take your inane comments elsewhere? Start your own blog .
Wow… this epic string of comments has been entertaining, oftentimes in a “it’s hideous but I can’t look away” vane. To Ron, Jeff, Bones, Herm, Iconoclast, Drew TwoFish, Snooterpoot, and many others I am missing, (you know who you are) thanks for the persistence, the defense, and expertly arguing against bigotry, hate, and ignorance. While as a recovering Southern Baptist I can understand how people like BS and SL think, it is still no excuse for ignoring what is before our very eyes. As the parent of a gay child, I am hopeful that these attitudes will continue to change. The empirical evidence based on the rotten fruit of religious teaching, in this area, is all around us. I still come here and read, but I do not post much because frankly, it just winds up requiring too much of my time. I am retired now and busier than ever. Still I felt like I needed to give credit where credit is due…. thanks again.
So is Romans 1 and Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13.
A complete and total LIE to all of you?
I would say commonly misinterpreted-helped along in some cases by flawed English translations.
Is the Constitution all a lie to you?
Can we just put his here for Bob/Bill and his minions seeing they like to bring this up every post….. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/99084c4d0aa5e4ec4a9a11ffe27363df3f3830e4708812aea1a7f17a16ab6899.jpg
He probably has that sign up in his bedroom…
I take it Bitchy Bobby is still stomping around here. (I’ve blocked him so I don’t have to actually read his holier-than-thou crapola anymore, but I still see plenty of “This user is blocked” in the comments.)
I try not to block people, but he’s really pushing it for me tonight.
I’ve been tempted to block them but they’ll only take it as a badge of honor thinking that we can’t handle The Truth(tm). I just quit conversing with them altogether; it’s nearly always futile to communicate with a closed mind. Unitl their rhetoric hits them directly where it hurts you’re mostly wasting your time.
Why are we entertaining hate speech against gay people on this blog?