It’s easy to look back on the injustices in history, while shaking your fist and saying, “Well I woulda…!”
This is especially true when we reflect on the WWII era and the rise of Nazi rule that ultimately ushered in the Holocaust and the death of millions. Whether imagining yourself as an American at the time or someone living in Germany during the rise of the Third Reich, most people I know seem to claim they would have been among the brave souls who stood up and said something… who stood up and did something.
My conservative evangelical friends especially seem to love to fantasize about what they would have done, likening themselves to Dietrich Bonhoeffer (the Eric Metaxas version who was a conservative evangelical assassin, not the Bonhoeffer of history who was a Lutheran, an LGBTQ Christian, and wasn’t directly involved in any assassination plot). Yet, until now, the question as to “Who would you have been?” or, “What would you have done if you lived back then?” has been purely hypothetical and imaginary.
But this question is no longer hypothetical. It is no longer imaginary.
And neither is the answer to the question.
In fact, this question has an incredibly easy answer. Who would you have been had you lived during this historical era of evil and injustice? What would you have done?
You’d be the same person you are now.
You would have done what you are doing now.
It’s easy to sit there and push back, saying, “Nope, those two things are not the same.” While I agree that Hitler comparisons and calling people Nazi’s is often overplayed in today’s parlance, the era you find yourself in is eerily similar. And yes– who you would have been during the rise and rule of the Third Reich, and what you would have done to stop the injustices and atrocities committed against the innocent, is exactly who you are today– and exactly what you’re doing now.
You see, Hitler didn’t begin by building gas chambers. Like the old analogy of a frog in a pot that slowly heats up until it’s too late, the road that paved the way to gas chambers was much more incremental, subtle, socially palatable, seemingly justified, or easily ignored– both to those within Germany, and without.
It all started with a nation who felt their glory days were over, and who worried their economy was in trouble. Along came a leader who connected with those who were scared, angry, and nostalgic for the past. This new leader promised to fix the economy; he was determined to rebuild their military, and he convinced the masses that he would Make Germany Great Again.
They caved into their fears, and they bought into his vision– probably never imagining it would one day end in death camps.
Getting to that point happened slowly, and in ways that few seemed to challenge or find too objectionable. He’d call the media “fake news” in a move that would later make it easy to deny what was really happening. He blamed their problems on Jewish immigrants who he called “viruses” and “leeches” and claimed were destroying the economy. Eventually the masses of scared and angry white people, individuals who probably would have objected to the idea of death camps at the onset of his rule, had been subtly convinced that Jews were leeches who were getting in the way of Making Germany Great Again– so they turned a blind eye to some evils, and actively participated in others.
These individuals not only ended up on the wrong side of history, they were lulled into collectively committing one of the most evil acts the world has ever known. And those who stood up at the end, stood up too late– because the battle should not have been waged at death camps– it should have been waged when the foundation was still being laid.
The foundation upon which death camps were built began with unchecked nationalistic pride, nostalgia for the past, promises to Make Germany Great Again, accusations the media was fake news, and speech after speech that blamed Germany’s problems on immigrants who were supposedly killing the economy.
By the time there was an actual building erected on that foundation, it was too late.
So, who would you have been during Nazi Germany?
What would you have done?
Would you have been on the right side of history, or complicit on the road to horrific evil?
I don’t need you to answer that question, because I already know the answer.
Who you would have been, is exactly who you are now.
And what you would have done, is what you’re doing today.
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I don’t think the title of your article matches the content lol. Just kidding, mainly because I had some doubts after reading the article.
James franco Robert williams.
The birds. Toothless. Brown bear. Whip.
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Can you be more specific about the content of your article? After reading it, I still have some doubts. Hope you can help me.
Can you be more specific about the content of your article? After reading it, I still have some doubts. Hope you can help me.
Can you be more specific about the content of your article? After reading it, I still have some doubts. Hope you can help me. https://www.binance.info/cs/join?ref=W0BCQMF1
The parallels between the MAGA group and WWII era Germany really are pretty striking. It’s not 1:1, of course, but there are many lessons to be learned. There was a really interesting podcast I was listening to that was talking about how ordinary Germans came to support Hitler and the Nazis. Lookup the episode “How Nice, Normal People Made The Holocaust Possible” from the “Behind the Bastards” podcast.
This all seems a tad too conveniently formulated to pat on the back those of us who oppose aspects of President Trump’s rhetoric and actions as the type of people who would have stood of up to murderous Nazis (aren’t we courageous and brave!!) while essentially saying that people who are indifferent to or support aspects of President Trump’s actions/behavior would have been Nazi enablers. To say that we would have courageously opposed the rise of the Nazis in the face of violent SS gangs because we oppose President Trump’s immigration policies or the nasty things he’s said, despite the lack of any physical danger to ourselves in 21st Century America, seems too self-righteous and easy (particularly, when, for most people, “opposing Trump” means posting something critical of him on the Internet or not voting for him in an election). This seems like pretty cheap grace to me.
What if someone took the time to compare the rhetoric and policy proposals of various American progressive political leaders over the past 20 or so years to those of leftist world leaders who became totalitarian thugs in decades past? I’m sure students of history could come up with some good similarities. Would it be appropriate to tell American progressives who admired those American political leaders that they would have been cheering on the leftist, oppressive dictators in other countries? What would you have been doing in 1960s Cambodia, 1950s China, or 1920s Russia?
I recommend this article from a couple years ago. Quit comparing people to Hitler. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/trump-hitler-comparisons-21371
Great comparison! I hope this is a comparison with Nazi Germany that a few of today’s Trump supporters might actually consider.
This all seems a tad too conveniently formulated to pat on the back those of us who oppose aspects of President Trump’s rhetoric and actions as the type of people who would have stood of up to murderous Nazis (aren’t we courageous and brave!!) while essentially saying that people who are indifferent to or support aspects of President Trump’s actions/behavior would have been Nazi enablers. To say that we would have courageously opposed the rise of the Nazis in the face of violent SS gangs because we oppose President Trump’s immigration policies or the nasty things he’s said, despite the lack of any physical danger to ourselves in 21st Century America, seems too self-righteous and easy (particularly, when, for most people, “opposing Trump” means posting something critical of him on the Internet or not voting for him in an election). This seems like pretty cheap grace to me.
What if someone took the time to compare the rhetoric and policy proposals of various American progressive political leaders over the past 20 or so years to those of leftist world leaders who became totalitarian thugs in decades past? I’m sure students of history could come up with some good similarities. Would it be appropriate to tell American progressives who admired those American political leaders that they would have been cheering on the leftist, oppressive dictators in other countries? What would you have been doing in 1960s Cambodia, 1950s China, or 1920s Russia?
I recommend this article from a couple years ago. Quit comparing people to Hitler. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/trump-hitler-comparisons-213711
I agree. Is O’bama’s “Fundamentally Change America” any less disturbing than “Make America Great Again”?
I posted the following at another popular progressive blog here on Patheos.
I have no idea why it was deleted by the author of the blog. I´d appreciate
some thoughts. Thanks. (If this is too off topic, I´d ask the moderators to
simply delete it here as well).
I get it. Too much nationalism in the church.
I get it. Empire belongs to Caesar, but the Kingdom of God belongs to Jesus Christ.
Having been part of the conservative evangelical scheme in America for some time, where there is a
dangerous and poisonous mix of religion and right wing politics, I get the desire of many preachers,
pastors, etc. these days to warn us about the blasphemy of “cozying up” with
the kings of the world. This kind of teaching is very en vogue in
many progressive, post-evangelical settings.
I get it. It´s all money, mars, mammon and war. It´s Roma.
That said, I can´t help but think this is a bit of a knee jerk reaction. Empire is not all bad. I´m drawn
to the Monty Python bit about “What have the Romans ever done for us” right about now. Empire does good things
(sometimes) and government, when done well, is supposed to be a steward of the good according to St. Paul. No … it´s not the Body of Christ,
that much is true, but when Christians are involved in influencing the political process (and by this I DON´T mean American, partisan politics)
good things can happen — especially in the area of social justice.
I happen to live in a country with a very sordid past, but over the last 70 years or so it has made great strides in attempting
to govern well. From a political perspective, this is also good news of its own sort. I think
leaders in the church should be helping their people learn how to properly navigate the political spectrum, encouraging them to think deeply and
intelligently about how their faith can shape the public square.The church cannot provide all the services and legislation that a government
can, despite what many conservative Christians in America believe, so a partnership between the two spheres is very much needed.
Telling Christians to send the government packing is not the answer, I don´t think.
Indeed Matthew. Perhaps the blogger doesnt have a sense of humour – probably best not to mention Monty Python (I have mixed feelings about the Life of Brian but the stoning scene is hilarious).
Without the government, good or bad, society would collapse. Could you imagine how the crime rate would soar without a recognised police force! It would be like The Purge, every day.
Trump visited the UK today! There were thousands out protesting, in London and numerous other cities. I get that, and praise God we live in a country that allows peaceful demonstrations. But then when the Chinese premier visited a few years ago, I can only remember a few local Chinese protesting his visit with the PM and the Queen. Yet he leads an atheist, communist and Christian-persecuting government. Funny that.
Thanks so much Peter. I have mixed feelings about MP too. The scene I´m referring to is quite telling though …
I am Caesar, that’s why it says “Jesus, Pharaoh of the Jews” on the cross. 100% certified “worse than Hitler” because Hitler can’t touch your soul – but I can.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/152342a4c927542de46bfc505bca2ec9406e77dd42a49cea8ee5405a091f5089.png
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpWOYeHwcNo
I actually think this comparison is unfair to the Germans living under the Nazis. No, the Nazis didn’t start with gas chambers…but they did start with Dachau, a concentration camp built for their political enemies, just a couple of months after Hitler was appointed chancellor. And while Dachau wasn’t comparable to Auschwitz, it was still marked by brutality on a level we haven’t yet seen from the Trump administration.
From the very first months of Nazi rule, a German faced great danger for being openly opposed to the Nazis. An American opposed to Trump faces…what? Twitter trolls? Fox News? The danger of vocalizing opposition is much lower, even if the crimes are likewise not yet at the same level as even the Nazis in the early days. What stays someone from fighting against what’s happening is thus either active support or apathy, rather than the justified fear of opponents of Hitler.
In my city, the most active members of the #Resistance refuse to rally outside a particular administrative ICE facility. They are afraid of mass arrest right off the public sidewalk along the edge of the public road, where people walk to work and school. Whether this fear is silly is besides the point. Team Trump has successfully cowed large swaths of people from doing more than Facebook and maybe, for the daring and bold, a letter to the paper. And this is how Hitler won, and the Trumpzis are going to.
For some great insight into what creates the conditions that resulted in Nazi Germany in a modern context, I highly recommend the thought provoking German film, The Wave. (Yes, you will have to put up with subtitles unless you speak German).
I said it before, and I keep saying it:
When I was young, I wondered, “Why didn’t good people stop the Nazis? Why did they allow all that evil to happen?”
Now, as an adult, I find myself wondering, “How do you stop the Nazis? How do you prevent all that evil from happening?”
Because wow, is it huge, and nothing I do seems to be having any kind of impact at all. The people who are in power absolutely do not care what I think, feel, or want, and there are masses of people who are willing to back horrors and nothing I seem to do makes a dent on them.
I don’t care about “being on the right side of history” after the horrors have gone down, I want to keep this stuff from actually going down, and I don’t know how to get that to happen.
You’re not alone! Here are three great books. Dreaming the Dark (about Power) by Starhawk; Language Intelligence by Joe Romm; This is an Uprising (see https://thisisanuprising.org). Also you could gather friends to watch history-fiction films Gandhi and Iron-Jawed Angels. Join TheKingCenter
None of us would be.the same if we were in WW2
Who would I have been? Who am I? I am one of Millions of mentally ill, elderly,
nobody’s who would have become human flakes pouring out of the crematoria!! Soon history will repeat itself!!
Not especially thought provoking – more like a bizarre fairy tale.
One point to ponder is whether the media is trying to inform or shape political opinion.
They still let YOU in here? https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d65a24058e532f4472ff6718397ceeaf03490547ce28f2540f54200d348df8f7.jpg
Stop sniffing the glue….
Bob you are such a silly bunny! https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f0f9f553c05212cdc8bd5777fe059192b019c47b0cbce6db280d15289fa5ee4a.gif
Silly rabbit … Trix are for kids!! 🙂
Let me entertain you
Let me make you smile
Let me do a few tricks
Some old and then some new tricks
I’m very versatile
https://youtu.be/DCc8kSdeqxw
Wow Charles. Here I am sitting in Germany viewing this YouTube clip. It truly drew me in. The beautiful voice. The scenery. The faces. But then as the camera pans down and begins to highlight the uniform, a spooky feeling came over me. Really.
I went into the other room and asked my German mother-in-law if she had ever seen this film clip before. She couldn´t place it, but after a few minutes she said something like:
“The Nazis were always trying to bring such talent to the forefront so the people would think “Oh how beautiful. This cannot possibly be bad.”
My mother-in-law was born in 1937 in Berlin. I have learned so much from her.
Entertainment shapes the land the way the hammer shapes the hand…
https://youtu.be/nggyni6bee4
Casino Nation 2002
-Jackson Browne
Well Charles … I suppose everyone has a different experience with an artistic presentation.
My wife was not as moved as I was by the “Tomorrow Belongs to Me” clip. She immediately said … too much like a Hollywood movie.
Interesting …
Hi Matthew – this made me cry! (the song starts at 58 secs). I found it quite spiritual. Peter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLFEvHWD_NE
I had some problems understanding all the lyrics … but I got the main message.
If only we could be that accepting of one another as human beings. If only we could love as Christ loves. If only.
Made me cry a little too Peter. Thanks brother. Let´s not be afraid of who we are.
“This is Me!”
[Edited]
Yes the lyrics arent that clear. It was their emotional response that got to me more.
The Lord accepts us as we are, but wants us to become more like Him. Little steps…
Yes … little steps.
Jackson browne isnt much of a fan of trumps….
Authorities investigated possible threat against Jackson Browne concert in Orlando
https://www.google.com.au/amp/www.orlandosentinel.com/news/crime/os-jackson-browne-concert-threat-orlando-20180122-story,amp.html
Yeah apparently we need to be civil.
oh the irony!!https://youtu.be/EHXKNUlzAEM
So, you’d be gawking while the cattle cars are loaded, or actually loading them yourself?
They let you hold a gun if you’re loading, if that makes a difference.
They are You in so many ways.
Nope. Thats you. You would cheer on trump if he killed someone.
He said it himself.
With my last name I would have sucked gas.
Thank you Dr. Corey for speaking truth without apology, no matter how upsetting it is to White Evangelicals still supporting Trump’s hate-filled, xenophobic gospel. Will Evangelicals have ears to hear and eyes to see? Let’s observe:
Don’t know which Ot….you are but you are deluded just the same.
Is it just some ‘White Evangelicals’ who support Trump?
Just ray-ciss White-complected Evangelicals. Whenever I try to have bum sex with a White -complected Evangelical, they say “Yuck, you brown piece of shit! Get away from me!”
It hurts me so.
Yes, things are clearer now, and more sorrowful. I understand better how things happened in Germany. If I had been there, based upon what I am doing now, I would have been shocked, I would have spoken out, then I would have felt powerless as I watched the politicians forge on ahead undeterred. I would have felt despair when people I loved cheered what the leadership was doing. I would have been aghast at the continued public political rallies. Close family would have told me to be careful what I say because he may be taking names. That’s what would have happened then, because that’s what’s happening now. Yet today, I take courage that there is resistance. I have a remarkable hope in the public cries for ethics and compassion, even though those cries are not coming from the church that I grew up in. Still, there is a humanitarian call yet sounding.
I agree with this essay, but I think there must be a better way to express right and wrong than saying “the right side of history.” Does history have a side? Is it a sentient being? Does it have a right side, a left side, a back side? Why not just say something like, “Would you have done what is right?” Or “Would you have followed Christian values?” Or “Would you have acted out of courage and compassion?”
I hope you don´t mind me asking, Benjamin, but can you specifically cite your sources that
report Bonhoeffer to be an LGBTQ Christian and that also state he was not in any way part of the assassination plot?
Thanks so much.
I’m not convinced by it…..
MAKING ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT DIETRICH: How Bonhoeffer was Made Fit for America
by FERDINAND SCHLINGENSIEPEN
http://thebonhoeffercenter.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=37:schlingensiepen-on-metaxas-and-marsh&catid=21&Itemid=263
Thanks Bones.
I´m convinced that both Metaxas and Marsh probably got some things wrong and some things right — historically and biographically speaking that is. Some readers will cling to certain aspects of the reported stories, others to other aspects, but in the end we´ll probably never know with 100% certainty the real story and life of Dietrich Bonhoeffer.
What´s most important — I think — are the questions I´m personally left with at the end of the day. What does the life of Dietrich Bonhoeffer mean to me? If he was a homosexual — does it matter? Whether a theological liberal or conservative (I´m tempted to think, like some of us, Bonhoeffer was probably not static in his theological understandings) — does it really matter? A pacifist not at all part of the assassination plot or a “just war” Christian who was part of the assassination plot — does it really matter?
To me (and at the end of the day I´m the only one who has to live with my personal understanding and interpretation of his life):
He loved Christ. He bravely stood up against injustice. He paid the ultimate price for what he believed to be true and right. I can certainly learn something from that.
I will add in closing that I am also fully aware that the lives of C.S. Lewis, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, William Wallace, Martin Luther, etc. looked very different when I was in Christian fundamentalist circles. We must always be aware of selectively telling a story or painting a human life picture with only one, bright color.
[Edited]
Metaxas got nothing right.
He tried to turn bonhoeffer into a right wing fundy. In truth he was more liberal than me.
He was nothing of the sort that Metaxas tried to make him out to be.
Its all about ideology and propaganda.
For those who deal in facts, it matters when people try to twist history.
What should an authorized (or unauthorized for that matter :-)) biography of Bones from Australia include?? Maybe one could read all your posts here, do a little analysis and interpretation, and voila, we got Bones´ life down pat!
Do you have an idea for a working title? Cover art?
🙂 🙂 🙂
Or worse: describe me as english or american.
Knowing the dishonesty of conservatives they’d describe me as an Ethiopian evangelical fundamentalist trump worshipper.
‘Dietrich Bonhoeffer …was an LGBTQ Christian’
– I wouldnt presume that. It’s based on a certain biography which partly looked at a close friendship he had. At the end of his life, Bonhoeffer was engaged, and according to his own words, going to his death ‘a virgin’.
Even if he did have sexual feelings towards his friend, I dont think your labelling of him as an ‘LGBTQ Christian’ is appropriate, given that in most people’s minds, such a label refers to Christians who endorse gay sexual relationships and are involved in such. That doesnt seem to apply to Bonhoeffer.
In his book, ‘Cost of Discipleship’, Bonhoeffer wrote: “Cheap grace is preaching forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, Communion without confession. … Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living and incarnate.”
We can all learn from him.
Bonhoeffer was a theological liberal.
You’d hate him too.
ben corey is attempting to equate the trump administration with nazism, like much of the press, when in reality it is the liberal left that is acting like the nazi party in their suppression of free speech, harassment of people, and downright hatred of those that do not agree with them. I am so sorry that he too can’t get past his feelings for Trump. And even grasping at straws as to bonhoeffer’s sexuality and assassination involvement. Trying to rewrite history to your liking, ben ?
Its very similar especially the way a cult is being made up around him. And using the same rhetoric ie dont trust main line media, dont question what i say or do, hatred of liberalism, spreading divisive rhetoric against minorities….
The Left received two mortal blows this week both from SCOTUS. The union dues decision is a crusher for campaign contributions but the replacement of Kennedy with a stronger conservative is devastating for judicial activism. When McConnell told the country last night he intends to have the Trump nominee in place by the first week in October we all went wild with excitement. Even better, Ginsburg won’t hand in there throughTrump’s first term let alone his second.
And once again you show how f###ed up people like you are.
yes, ginsburg’ doctors have to keep her alive as long as possible. but if trump gets/wants a second term, that may be difficult. I admire kennedy for wanting to enjoy a bit of retirement.
Ah yes what a bs system where judges are appointed on account of their politics.
bones, everybody leans a bit. Some more noticeable than others.
To get a truly impartial judge one has wait till they die.
No. It doesnt work that way in the rest of the western world.
The US system of appointments of justices based on their politics is more at home in dictatorships and i dont care which side you’re on.
Kind of like Weekend at Bernies for Ginsburg…
The Progressives are self-destructing in every way possible. They are losing their minds because Trump is succeeding at everything he promised. But finally they have lost their grip on their constituents: #WalkAway
Thanks for this post Benjamin.
I know there are those who think you´ve gone a bit crazy or over the top in your estimations, but every historical moment indeed has its beginnings.
I thank you for the warning, though I truly hope you are wrong.
Lord have mercy.
Thank you for laying out the similarities so clearly. I’m sure it is a very uncomfortable question for many. Its uncomfortable for me because its a reminder to continue contacting my representatives, to show up at protests even though I’d much rather not. Fighting back is seldom convenient.
It really is terrifying to see just how easily people claiming to be Christian can be manipulated into cheering for an anti-Christ.
Being a half-Jewish mongrel, I would be dead. No one would have stood up for me.
I’d be dead, most likely.
As a Black liberal woman, I’d also be dead.
As would most liberals.
I would like to add to my previous comment. Jehovah’s Witnesses were not the only ones persecuted by the Nazis for their beliefs and/or conscience.
For example. The attempt by the Confessing Church to resist is well documented. Thousands of Priests were imprisoned in concentration camps or murdered. The persecution of the Priests was especially severe in Poland. There were some in the camps who were there for being Conscience Objectors; with or without a religious faith.
But, millions of Germans; Catholic, Lutheran and those belonging to other denominations either supported the Nazi regime actively or vacated their Christian principles and “just went along.”
I see your previous comment is “awaiting moderation.” What has always struck me about Jehovah’s Witnesses, and indeed separates them from most of evangelicalism, is a steadfast rejection of nationalism, or what evangelicals like to call “patriotism.” Some aspects of this, such as conscientious objection were originally a part of fundamentalism in other denominations, but due to criticism from the general population, was abandoned after the First World War and replaced with unbridled White Nationalism. The group that most resembles JW’s is probably the Anabaptists today (Mennonites). Although they tend to a more diverse theological stance, or allow more leeway of thought within their denomination.
Having many deep theological talks with a former JW boss years ago, I can say there are a number of things I find in agreement with JWs. Hell, or eternal punishment, not Biblical, the teaching is a misunderstanding of some Bible passages. Heaven is not our final destination, a recreated New Earth is. Evangelicals have “spiritualized” what, in Jesus’ teaching, and Jewish thought, is a very earthly paradise. It is the coming Kingdom, not heaven. I tend to think of heaven as “command central.”
Many Anabaptist refuse to participate in politics, and I see the advantage and disadvantages. It is good to remember Jesus said to render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s. God is not a Republican or Democrat. He’s not even an American, lol, and America is the greatest nation on earth! American exceptionalism is anti-gospel.
The closest thing to the Lutheran Church’s complacency to the Nazi rise to power that we’ve seen in America is perhaps the S Baptist’s overt racism and persecution, including murder, of Blacks following the American Civil War and the development of segregation. A terrible stain on the evangelical church.
Gay people in concentration camps weren’t even released by the allies after the german surrender neither were they eligible for compensation.
Hitler’s antigay laws in germany remained well into the 60s.
Dr. Corey and comment section moderators: a fraudulent Disqus account impersonating me has again resurfaced. This is the 6th occurance of such harrassing behavior.
While the Evangelical troll can steal my username and avatar, he lacks the tools to steal my profile history. My Disqus accoutn was opened in 2011, remains public, with 4,775 comments and 14,154 upvotes. The abuser’s fraudulent account is set to private, of course, and was opened in June 2018:
https://disqus.com/by/disqus_n7HXeYjpge/
Evangelical trolls sure have earned their abusive reputations.
Is there a way you can report this to Discus and get him banned?
Thanks for your inquiry. Disqus does have a User Terms of Service, a Publisher’s Terms of Service, and protocols for reporting those in violatation of the terms. But not unlike Twitter and other social media hotspots, Disqus evidently doesn’t know how to address those who repeatedly violate their own terms. Evangelical bullies thrive in environments that enable their abusive behavior, from social media sites to megachurches to 24 hour “news” networks to the current presidential administration. Their rage-filled gnashing of teeth is their witness, their gospel, their applied theology, and it’s how history will remember them.
Well hopefully Discus will take action. Surely, it is against Duscus rules to impersonate another account holder.
You claim you have made over 4,700 comments, but they are just the same statements repeated incessantly:
– White Evangelicals are bad
– Jesus was brown-complected
– Jesus never said homo-sex is bad
– I am being persecuted by a White Evangelical
Blocked for impersonation. Discus should block you completely.
Yes, they should.
And you are deceitful and dishonest.
A parody account is “deceitful and dishonest”? Ho-kay
“Who you would have been, is exactly who you are now.”
According to research performed by Ben Goossen of Harvard’s History Department, the Anabaptist Mennonites in Germany did not merely stand by passively but actively collaborated in the rise of Nazism. Some Mennonites were guards at concentration camps. At the time a full quarter of the world’s Mennonites lived in Germany. There is some irony in Dr. Corey, a Mennonite/Anabaptist, performing moral grandstanding when members of our own branch of Christianity actively supported the Nazis.
Apart from Christ we are hopeless sinners, completely and utterly lost. If I had been in Germany would I have been like those Anabaptists mentioned in the Martyr’s Mirror who were killed for their beliefs? Or would I have joined my Anabaptist brethren in supporting national socialism? I don’t know. But I do know this: without Christ, I might have done great evil. It would be self-righteous and hypocrisy to claim anything else.
Thinking you have a magic rock against turning evil is a good way to not notice when you’ve turned evil.
Nicely stated.
Interestingly enough, there is a strong likelihood many progressives would have gone with the dominant religious culture. Bonhoeffer’s fight was not with the fundamentalist, his allegiance was with the confessing church as opposed to the church of “what’s happening now”…just saying.
Wrong!
Conservatives went with hitler….The conservative party merged with the nazis and were in coalition with them.
The German National People’s Party (German: Deutschnationale Volkspartei, DNVP) was a national conservative party in Germany during the time of the Weimar Republic. Before the rise of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party (NSDAP) it was the major conservative and nationalist party in Weimar Germany. It was an alliance of nationalists, reactionary monarchists, völkisch, and antisemitic elements, and supported by the Pan-German League.[11]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_National_People%27s_Party
And yes they hated liberals too.
Bonhoeffer was no conservative. He was a theological liberal.
and he broke with the theological liberals….your assumption is so 21st century wheere evangelical is synonymous with Republican.
No bonhoeffer didnt. He embraced humanism and religionless christianity.
Stop being dishonest for once and making bonhoeffer out to be something he wasnt.
Oh and lying about history.
But thats par for the course with your type.
From the expert who references Wikipedia and hangs around a religion blog while professing to be religionless. What type is that?
Btw let us know when you actually study bonhoeffer and not your lying evangelical misrepresentations.
I wont hold my breath waiting.
On display here is yet another example of unearned Evangelical privilege. They assume the privilege of spreading lies and slander without consequences. Thank you Bones for calling out their gospel of bearing false witness.
The way they shamelessly lie is just astounding.
Lol….is this your standard response for being caught out lying?
There’s no way you’d repent because your head’s so far up your arse.
Come back when you have an ounce of credibility because you have none.
says the man of obvious credibility….have fun amusing yourself….
Meh you people have no shame even lying about the dead to spread your own ideology.
Cowards!
We see you for what you are.
Yeah derpy i think bonhoeffer was on to something with his religionless christianity.
It would mean not being hypocritical liars like you.
Lol you’d hate bonhoeffer.
Fortunately, in this context, I am not an American and I don’t have to answer the question as to what I would do if I was. As an observer I would say I have no idea how far Trump and the Republicans will go, or want to go, and the idea they intend to go as far as the Nazi party did seems far-fetched. But that’s the point: the idea that the Nazi’s would go as far as they did also seemed far fetched to those at the time until they actually did so, and by the time they did so, it was too late to stop them.
Frankly I think comparisons between Trumpism and Nazism are overblown, at least so far, and they aren’t, probably, looking to set up gas chambers any time soon, but you can’t sit around waiting to find out. You can’t allow a little bit of horrible because it makes you feel safer, or because you don’t care much, or it p*sses off your political opponents without potentially opening the door to much, much worse. Even if, or especially if, you are a conservative you need to be saying “No, that’s enough, you are overstepping the mark.”
Oh dear. This made me cry too. Just beautiful. Only the Lord is enough…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jZVsr7q-tE
I’ll disagree to a certain extent, and take it a step farther.
Things in the US have deteriorated, but there is still some public sense of rights and some limit on violence. That helps to constrain people.
The real question is what someone would do if those constraints were removed, and if they could be persuaded to go along with things now seen as extreme. [This isn’t a right or left thing – it is an about what happens when a sense of individual rights breaks down entirely and the state itself becomes extreme.]
The new Showtime “Who is America” program with Sacha Baron Cohen may be a comedy, but that is the very serious question underlying it. What can people be persuaded to do, what will they go along with?
I’ve just finished reading “On Hitler’s Mountain” by Irmgard Hunt. The author was a child during WW2, and she describes how her parents and others were drawn into supporting the Nazis in the 1930s – much as you say. From what I know of America, the political parallels are noticeable, much as you say. I recommend it.
But there is one major difference. Germany in the 1920s and 30s was battered from its involvement in WW1 and by the suppression of its economy by the victorious powers. Poverty was rife. Hyper-inflation had taken hold. I know there are areas of poverty in America, as there are in Britain. Some communities are suffering, and I believe the gap between your rich and poor is widening. But as far as I know, overall your economy is pretty strong. I really don’t know what “Make America Great Again” means: when was it great? In what ways is it not great now? The answers to these questions in 1930s Germany would have been plain to all.
Hitler exploited very real economic problems to his own ends, with appalling results. The discontent which has contributed to Donald Trump’s election, and in Britain towards our small majority for leaving the EU, is harder to pin down. These are real. They must be addressed by politicians of good conscience. But they are not, by and large, disasters. So I don’t believe that the conditions that led to Hitler gaining power exist in Britain or America today. But the moral call to remain alert remains.
Where would I have been? I honestly don’t know.
One massive difference between Hitler and Trump; Hitler was the leader of the Nazi party–the National Socialist German Worker’s Party. Key word: Socialist. Who, the right or left, is promoting socialism? What is Trump supporting? Less Government control, less government interference, more capitalism. This blog is way off the mark!
The Nazi’s weren’t socialist and didn’t promote socialism. Is the Democratic Republic of North Korea, democratic? Is the World Series really a World series?
What was the phrase Hitler used many times? Make Germany Great Again – sound familiar.
What is Trump supporting? Greed, his own self-interest, White supremacy, self-absorbed nationalism, more neoliberal capitalism (not a good thing), less support for the poor and vulnerable, deceit, do we need to go on?
Although the Nazi’s stated that they opposed socialism, they controlled manufacturing, they controlled education, they controlled the media, they controlled health-care, etc. Sorry, they were socialists!
No they were authoritarian fascists, they ran all those things for their own benefit and the benefit of a small elite, that wasn’t socialism.
Good point. I shall ruminate.
I suffer from several physical disabilities and mental illness / would just try to hide from the Nazis or … I would have been gassed. I am life Unworthy of life … https://media1.giphy.com/media/WERC1NnV4DczK/giphy.gif